I would like to share some information on selecting a good/tune-able ThermoQuad with the members/readers of this board. Too often the choice is made to use a "smogger" 1975-1984 carb on an engine that has had the smog equipment disabled or on an
engine that has several bolt-on mods; these particular carbs work well on the intended applications, but will give you poor idle quality and severe lean idle/off idle conditions and little or no "tuneability". This is because the 1975 and up T.Q.'s have been redesigned to only operate efficiently with an egr, egr timer delay and the fuel separator and on some modles, an altitude compensator and or an electric or vacuum "enrichment" solenoid.
There are 3 catagories that T.Q.'S fall into:

1st is the Competition Series first run, 850 and 1,000 cfm versions which had "press-in jets" circa 1969-1970; then the last run with "screw-in" jets circa 1971-1974. Both carbs shared in common the 1-1/2" od primary butterflies & 2-1/4" od 2ndaries and the same metering rod tree as the one year only 1971 340
T.Q.(1971-1974 C S and 1971 340 carbs used the same style jets
and metering rods. The 850 C S had the double boosters while the 1,000 cfm had just the inside "small" booster and thus had
very poor idle qualities.

2nd is the 1971 Thermoquad only used on the 340 engines; it was a decent carb, with 1-3/8" od primary butterflies & 2-1/4"
2ndary butterfly id's. It does not use the same jets/metering rods/piston as the 1972-1984 carbs and is not as "tuneable" and does not respond well to bolt on mods as the 1972-up carbs.

3rd is the 1972-1974 carbs: these are the best in as-is unaltered
condition even on engines with bolt-on mods and respond excellently with simple rejetting and other simple mods. These carbs were available in 800 and 850 cfm's and can be modified to
over 1,000 cfm's. They are INCREDIBLY TUNEABLE/ADAPTABLE!
The 1975-early 1978 carbs are also available in 800 and 850 cfm's and MUST HAVE mods done to the top plate/base plate and accelerator pump nozzles and jeting when used on an engine
without "smog" equipment or any engine with bolt-on mods; with these mods, these carbs will meet or exceed the performance/gas mileage of the 1972-1974 carbs and can also be modified to flow 1,000+ cfm's! The same is true for the late 1978
to 1984 carbs(these do require a few more mods that the 1975-
early 1978 carbs)and these carbs will really perform incredibly well with the implimentation of adjustable air bleeds.
Then the SuperQuads were an aftermarket replacement for all year T.Q.'s from 1971-1984 and were sold from 1978-1985; these were the last run for the T.Q. and were 800 cfm's based on the 1975 carbs and used a bolted on electric 12v choke just like the 1974 Ford 460 T.Q. and the Australian Ford T.Q.'s.

These carbs are the most "tuneable" Carter carbs and you do not have to have "special" tuning parts to go FAST!
Any questions?, just ask! DAVID.

I can't believe that nobody here has any questions yet!

Let's bring this subject back up to the top.

My first question is, I want to put a TQ on my '88 Diplomat 318 police engine, to replace the Quadrajet, which I have already replaced with an Edelbrock Performer with adapter plate. Runs OK, but part throttle performance is down and so is fuel mileage.

What TQ number would be the one to look for? We have no tailpipe emissions check as yet, and most of the emissions stuff is non-operating. I have eliminated the computer with a Mopar orange box kit, but have, as yet, stock exhaust with three converters. This is for my wife for daily driving, not a performance application.

Thanks David for any help you can give!

:) By the way, Welcome to the site! I have not seen too many posts from you here, but you are generally regarded as the man to see for TQ questions! How is the development of a new Strip Kit coming??

I would say LOOK for any small primary TQ that does NOT have the altitude compensator OR the enLEANment system on it.

I would find a 1972 T.Q. #6138-4spd or #6139- auto
or a 1973 T.Q. #6318-spd or #6319-auto.
Check e-bay and mopats ect.
These would be the best performing carbs and will not require any mods. The new "strip" kits are pretty much ready, DAVID.

Hay DS....where is that link for mopats?

how is your supply of tools holding out?

What size are your HP n&s sets?

Thanks, David. I have to go now, but will be back in a while with some other questions!

:cheers:

Well a 9801 would be nice for him if he can find one too I spose.
I sure like mine :)
So we never talked about whether the 9800 needed anything to run right. The ones I have used have all run great, sometime just a rebuild was needed, and they continue to work OK even with the throttle shafts looser then a goose.
Did you get those NOS 9800 picts I sent you, I never know if I have your latest e-mail theses days but I got it off your web site.

69Dartman, I never did get the pics!(demonsizzler1@cswebmail.com)
Your 9800 series T.Q. just needs the "tension" adjusted tighter
on the 12V choke.

Yeah I know, it's working better than then the first one so far. I can tighten it just a bit and see if that does the trick.
That is the e-mail address I have, I just checked. Maybe they block big binary attachments on that one. I can try it again or maybe send them one to a mail for you.

Well I filled your mail box it just told me. get the pics that made it and let me know.

I'm running a "DEMMON SIZZLER" #6138 with .098, 1966 rods and .145 in the back with no chock plate and brass floats.

I love the look on peoples faces when they look at it like it's an "alien" http://www.plaudersmilies.de/tales/grdmartien.gif carb!

DZ, something that may be helpful, and maybe you can clarify this for me, but I am thinking that the TQ's used on trucks won't be the same as those on the cars for those years that the trucks were not requried to have all the emissions crap. Example, some years, the trucks had a blank cover on the manifold where the EGR would be if the engine was in a car, so the truck carb should be a better choice, right?

Some of the truck carbs are pretty much free of the smog BS except most of the late ones have the bowel vent tube undrilled.
You could drill it I spose, I'm not sure if they vent other ways. A friend has one on his 400 and it seemed to still work OK, it was too lean but worked otherwise and I'm sure the lean condition was from haveing never retuned it to his engine.

What is the deal with bowl vents? I got a couple Holley 2 BBL 2210's from the yard today, from Vans, and they didn't have the bowl vent tube. One of them has the casting for it, would have to be drilled, etc. I was sure that both of these vans were newer than the 72-73 2210's that I already have, and they do have the bowl vent. Did they do away with that in later years? List numbers are 6764 and 7188. Does anyone have a link for Holley 2210 carbs that will tell me more about them? I plan on using them on 318 engines.

Trucks and vans could be ordered without emission stuff so my guess would be carbs off them without the vent came from emissions delete ones.

I had a carb for a 74 dart that didn't have the vent on it.

That it does...I've gotta email DS and find out how far back together I need to put the carb that I'm having media-blasted...

:)

Just to bump this back up, I'm rebuilding a 6322S that Crankshaftkid gave me a while back. Seems like a good basic TQ, but there are a few subtle differences in the base plate. What was this TQ originally used on?

The throttle shaft was loose on this one too (though not REAL bad) so I made some bushings out of brass tubing. Anyone see a problem with this?

6322S should be a '73 440 AT or truck carb, 1 1/2" primaries.

As far as bushings, I would think you would have to make sure that they are drilled exactly to ensure throttle plate alignment......but don't know how to do it. Get ahold of Demon Sizzler, if he is still around!

If you installed the bushings on center, and centered the butterflies and assuming that the id's of your bushings are not too tight/loose, you should be ok; also your butterfly screws should definately be 'staked' on the back side and the head should be 'contoured' for air flow, DAVID.

Would the bushing be centered of I didn't drill anything? I went down to a hobby shop with throttle shaft in hand and picked a size that fit the shaft tightest without binding. The wall of the tubing is pretty thin.
On the base, I just cleaned up the holees with a rolled up piece of sandpaper. Didn't sand enough to change the ID. After doing this, the tubing fit snug, took some light tapping to get it in. The shaft feels like it fits the tubing the same as before but now the shaft doesn't jiggle around. There's no binding at all. Just smooth action.
In an extreme case, something with a thicker wall would probably be needed.
As for the throttle blade screws, I used loctite and staked them.

Thanks for the replies!

Satilite73, normally the throttle shaft bore(when worn)becomes eccentric when it should be concentric on the very ends, so unless the whole length of the bore was eccentric, your work should be ok, DAVID.

Thanks David. I don't think I've ever had a TQ that didn't whistle from the throttle shaft, its gonna seem wierd not hearing it! :hehehe:

this is a goodun that deserves to come BTT every now and again, so here tiz.

Thanks, lilred!!

With more people coming here now, it always helps to bring the subject up again!

Thermoquads rule!!!:Wink1:

Where is Demon Sizzler now? Don't hear from him much!

That is a good read... missed it the first time through

I missed this one too.
Seeing as how many of us have had problems with TQ's, are running them, or are curious about them, that this would be a good thread to put a sticky on for the Service Station/Restoration section.

I'm still around! I haven't posted here in a while and will add some info about a new performance T.Q. carb I have built.

My new carb is a 'hybrid' race prepped T.Q. for a really mildly built 318. It uses my race prepped mods and smoger carb technology
and will flow about 890 cfm's. It is based on the late 1978 to 1984
800 cfm smoger carbs an is more specifically a # 9391 1984' 318
carb. It has a 'racy' look with all of my latest technology including main and hi speed removeable bleeds for extra tuneability and a hi tech look(the choke tower is milled off).

I have ridden in and owned many low compression 340 powered cars and this 318 with the new T.Q. would have an excellent chance to run with a l. c. 340. It is that good!

This carb is excellent for a stock 318 with a very mild cam/4 bbl intake/dual exhuast and stock gears/transmission.

This carb can back up it's radical looks with plenty of performance
and it gives the 318 a glass-smooth idle and really excellent cruzing manners. The performance just on the primaries is so
good, it is hard to believe! The engine accelerates on the primary
side so well you usually don't have to open all four barrels to accelerate quickly !

At wot, the engine really pulls strong to 5,000+ rpm's and the exhaust note is a blast! At idle, the engine sounds like a hi compression 340 with a deep, smooth rumble.

The engine starts just fine cold or hot and the best thing is the gas mileage which is about 19 mpg at highway speeds of 60-65 mph. It is just a good T.Q, so don't throw away those old T.Q.'s;
instead, go ahead and use it!

WOW! Sounds interesting!! Someones been keeping busy. I started thinking that maybe I should try one of those but the rebuilt 6319 that's on my 360 is still pretty much 'new'.
I know who will be at the top of my list next time I need one tho :)

David, Are you still working on the T-Q service manual? looking forward to getting a copy when its ready! thanks!

I am going back to a TQ on my 79 Magnum. The gas milage was far superior with it. I have an AFB on it now and it is like a 7-10 MPG difference, as well as the car was more responsive with the TQ. I like the TQs MOOOOOOOO when ya nailed it too.
What other spread bore carbs are there besides these and Qjets?

5th, this carb would really move your Chrysler; it would get the car out-of-the-hole fast!

Beeline, I am looking for the 'right way' to have the manual printed and will keep all posted on the manual.

dge479, the Holley 6210, 6710 and 6711 are all spread bore carbs but I am confident that most will tell you that these carbs are not sought over the T.Q.

David,
I didn't see an answer about the truck and van carbs.
Would a truck TQ up to/including '78 be smog free?
I realize you have the newer carb scienced out too, but I am acurious and also wanted to bump this again.
If I had an early carb without a messed up center, I would build one up and give it one more go.
As it is, a stock rebuild on a 78 carb is not the answer.
I have pulled about 3 mpg better with the TQ than with the 3310 750 vac sec Holley, but the TQ has never been without stumbles, hard starts, and back fires whereas I was able to tune any stumble out of the 3310 while still getting 15-16mpg with the 400 in my Magnum.
My old '77 Cordoba with a 400 had the same stumbles, but got 18-20 mpg.
The best the Magnum has done is 18mpg with the TQ, but since rebuilding it, it is worse than the Holley.
If I could afford to send my 4 or 5 carbs worth of assorted TQ parts to you I would, but that is not in my finances.

Yep, a Truck carb would be smog-free into the late 70s. I've got one off a '77 B-300 Van on my '77 New Yorker and it definitly didnt have any smog stuff, 440 in both, BTW.

BUT, mine has a problem. Its ungawdly rich, you can really smell it. I've tried adjusting the mixture screws and such, even put on a Blaster II coil. May need plugs, however. When I was fiddlign with it yesterday, at first, it stumbled on the secondary opening and let out a nice cloud of black soot. It got better, however, but you could see raw gas get on that secondary air door after it opened, Normal?

I'd like to get this fixed, as my 440 has more umph with the TQ than it did with the 600 Edelbrock.

Magnumguy has a t-quad #9077 on Ebay right now.

Is it the larger or smaller style?

Magnumguy, the 9077 should be for a '77 400 HP and have the
1 1/2" primaries, the larger ones.

By the way, here is a link to a very informative site for all those that are looking for Thermoquad info:


http://www.4speedram.com/vaanth_thermo-quad_guide.txt

I have both small and big primary TQ's, but all have problems with adhesive being shot on the wells that are under the jets.
Is there any way to rebond them and have them not leak?

GSMAG:
The last non smoger big block T.Q. was #6545 and it has a top plate casting # 6-2146; if the top plate casting is6-2141 or another #, it is a smoger carb assuming your carb is from a 1975-1977 truck or van. All van carbs after 1974 were smoger carbs regardless of engine size.

*The only other acceptions for 440 trucks are #'s 9034/9035 for Fed a/t, Calif-man trans; 9036 Calif a/t; 9096 Calif a/t.

You will have to grind the excess glue off of the well covers and recoat as needed.

Mopar Jamie, your carb is likely to rich due to the 2 special o-rings being dried up that seal the primary pickup to the bowl; this is a
common problem.

****************************************************
I have finally fired off Scott's 225 Hyper Pac with the ThermoQuad I build for it and MAN! this engine sure runs great and looks sooo
cool!!! We will hopefully get to drive it Monday. I have finally got the T.Q. 'dialed-in' with the right jetting/air bleed sizes and will post more info then.
****************************************************

I also found a 9803 today digging in my building. Would it be usuable to anyone?

Thank you for the info.
What is the best glue to use...ie won't leak like the fuel tank repair crap that I used on the carb that is on my Magnum currently?

I have never heard of a 9803, just 9800/9801, 9810/9811.

Just use any brand of clear two part epoxy.

I run a pair of TQ and people wondering why?? these plastic ****!!?? I have one answer: All carburators have great qualities and minor defaults.There is probably at least one of each carburator make/model that hold a NHRA record in any of big three.You just have to tune well,once the job done you just have to run them.I love to be different even on carbs.TQ have the best range capabilities for tuning all aspect of the fuel curve.Good power-Good economy and second to none Launching punch.

demonsizzler, i just got the carb you did for me today (6139-S) and the challenger is running excellent! much better than the first time around, the car runs better than it ever has, the 340 is purring like a big kitty. thanks! by the way if anyone is interested, i have a 9076-S in almost new condition that i need to get rid of. the application is a 1976 HP 360 automatic i believe.

Hey, Snook: shoot me a PM with the details on that carb, I'm interested. What do you mean by almost new?? New as in NOS, or new as in "rebuilt"?

:cheers:

V, you are exactly right that a T.Q. tunes extremely well on all three circuits and offers many performance and tuning advantages
not found or not easily accomplished on other 4 bbl carbs. I also agree that a T.Q. is definately something different that really works
when you need it to.

Snook, I'm glad to hear that the T.Q. is working right; when I got it,
it was way out of adjustment and I found nothing else wrong internally and I just simply put it back togther and bolted it to the test intake/engine and it fired off beautifully and all circuits were spot-on, DAVID.

I just put one back on my Magnum. Needs a little tuning and had a bad base gasket seal but otherwise its bliss

DS,
I have a TQ that I was told came off a 74 440. The upper casting has 6-4126 and the bottom cast shows 9022. Any info?

Thanks :usa:

DS,
I have a TQ that I was told came off a 74 440. The upper casting has 6-4126 and the bottom cast shows 9022. Any info?

Thanks :usa:

I think you transposed the #'s from the top plate; should be 6-2146 and is actually a 74' 360 truck carb. The Vaanth guide says it is an 800 cfm when infact it is an 850 cfm as long as the primary butterfly # is stamped 2-314 on the bottom side of each.

I noticed your sig and just thought I would add that I built a T.Q. for a slant six hop-up that is a daily driver and belongs to a friend. It is mounted to a Dutra Hyper pack intake and really is bizzare to look at!

Does anyone have any information on the ford truck thermoquad? Is it much different than the mopar applications? Desireable for performance street use or not?

Does anyone have any information on the ford truck thermoquad? Is it much different than the mopar applications? Desireable for performance street use or not?

Ford here in the US only used a T.Q. for one year, 1974, on the 460 passenger cars. It was rated at 800 cfm's while the big block and 74'-76' 360 hp Mopar and International Harvestor(except late 78'-up) carbs were all 850 cfm carbs.The US Ford T.Q. would have to be #6568 and is 'calibrated' for the 460 by jetting, emulsion/bleed id size and metering rod size. It would run ok on a mild small block. If you do have one of these carbs, I can make recomendations based on your engine specs, DAVID.

I have an interesting discussion .....
440 CI 1978 or 1979 Dodge Delta Higgins Corp Motor RV A/T
with a Kick down Rod, to the Tranny from the accelerator
Somebody stoled the Carbeurator out of my friends, RV.
all week, I have been trying to discover what goes in it..
The Company was out of business, come the High Interst Rate period 20 years
ago, when Prime rate was 21 1/2 % ...remember , History can repeat itself.
and I have concluded a TQ.

I saw a TQ, looked in pretty good shape, and bought it for 20 dollars
a 9377s, and the guy used it in a van and is shipping it out...

Was this a good choice, or should I sell it and get something else...
what should have gone in there??

Del Mar , California

Hey David,

Give us an update on what your working on now in the way of TQ's. The more I read the TQ seems the way to go for a single carb. installation.

Hey David,

Give us an update on what your working on now in the way of TQ's. The more I read the TQ seems the way to go for a single carb. installation.

Barry and other loyal T.Q. lovers, I am currently working on 2 very different performance level T.Q.'s. One is my new race T.Q. for about a 600+ hp stroker 360(now 408 cu in)and we hope to have the car run in the 9.90's by the end of the race season. This carb will flow as much as 1,100+ cfm's.

The 2nd carb is my new Twister carb, which is an 890 cfm race build for very mildly cammed small block engines with a max of .460" lift and a max duration of 220 degrees.

I have also begun to build NHRA/IHRA legal T.Q. 's for Stock and Super Stock classes. This is a real challenge since the outward appearance has to be totally stock. Proof that beauty is not just on the outside but what is on the inside really does count.

I hope to have Barry's carb back to him in a few days so he can go to the track and turn some heads by showing the competition his tail lights at the end of the run!

There are 3 catagories that T.Q.'S fall into:.I hope to have Barry's carb back to him in a few days so he can go to the track and turn some heads by showing the competition his tail lights at the end of the run!
David Cheves tells me he will be sending me today my STOCK/SUPER STOCK NHRA/IHRA legal - 1971 Thermoquad; with 1-3/8" od primary butterflies & 2-1/4" 2ndary butterfly id's maxed to the limits and a second Thermoquad of 850 cfm's with 1-1/2" od primary butterflies & 2-1/4" 2ndary butterfly id's modified to 'full race' specs. to be used for testing at 5,800'. :)

The car is ready and waiting, only need to get drivers side roll bar converted into a 'swing bar'. Have gone through the total car in updating per NHRA/IHRA - brakes to drive train, interior and exterior in 40 days. More rebuilding will start in a few months when the snow starts to fly and everything (tracks) are shut down in area. :mmmmm:

David Cheves tells me he will be sending me today my STOCK/SUPER STOCK NHRA/IHRA legal - 1971 Thermoquad; with 1-3/8" od primary butterflies & 2-1/4" 2ndary butterfly id's maxed to the limits and a second Thermoquad of 850 cfm's with 1-1/2" od primary butterflies & 2-1/4" 2ndary butterfly id's modified to 'full race' specs. to be used for testing at 5,800'. :) Received the carbs late yesterday according to the wife I was at work, figures, would have had one on by now. Will install the STOCK thermoquad this weekend and make a few little changes to shifter 'delete' plate (an hours work).

These aftermarket manufacturers build their products on the same mold and then adapt them to a dozen different model vehicles, shifters are the worst (same delete plate for everyone in some cases, just different length shifting rods). Have a TCI unit that either locks into 'high' or locks into 'park' but does not have enough throw to do both. Its either in one position and not quite in the other. By removing a little metal on the 'delete' plate (1/8") it now has a long enough throw to work properly. At first I thought it was me doing something wrong until talking to a dozen guys and found a good percentage had the same problem and told me what to do to correct it.

This corrected we are ready with 'Thermoquads Connection' carbs. to start testing at local strip. Finally back in the saddle again :plumcrazy